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How I Will Run the First American Bravissimo, Because Obviously They’d Just Let an Internet Stranger Run the First Overseas Expansion of their Baby
There has been a lot of internet chatter lately about the new Lifetime series Double Divas, which purports to educate American women about good fit, bra sizes, and breast health, while following the antics of the store’s personality-rich owners. I know I should watch it, y’all, but even though my office was closed on Monday, I just couldn’t bring myself to do it.*** I’m not sure why. Maybe because I’ve been burned before by stores that claimed they’d change my life? Maybe I was turned off by the over-the-top Southern! Wackiness! Shtick! that saturated the preview clips I watched online? Maybe because I don’t care for reality shows in general? Mostly, though, I didn’t want to watch it because of what I read from 1) commenters on the Lifetime site who watched the show and 2) other, more intrepid bloggers who had thoughts to share.
***N.B. I know it’s deeply unfair to judge a show and a store without even watching said show, but I want to share some of the discussion I’ve read and use it as a jumping-off point to talk about what to expect from a supportive lingerie boutique. If/when I do watch the show, I will share a review and continue the discussion.
I’m not going to delve too deeply into the comments, because internet comment sections stress me out, but I’ll just say that I did NOT see a lot of comments that said “I now love my breasts,” “I feel confident about fitting my boobs,” “I know now that there is nothing ‘wrong’ with my boobs,” “I feel pretty,” or “thanks for helping me figure out what I like!”
After reading Fussy Busty’s, The Lingerie Addict’s, and Hourglassy’s reviews, I REALLY didn’t want to watch the show. I think the store owners are certainly filling a market void– based on the clips I’ve seen, they stock many brands I love and recommend: Freya, Elomi, Parfait, Love Claudette, Cleo, and others, and they are spreading the word that the boob alphabet doesn’t end at D, or even DDD. One of the store’s owners even works to build and sew garments for customers who can’t find something in their size in stock, which is really, really wonderful and would be fun to see more of. The fact remains, however, that there is nothing, NOTHING, that excuses store owners/employees who body-snark their customers. It is NEVER acceptable to use “Whoa,” “gross,” “HUUUUGE,” “tiny,” and other loaded words to describe a person’s appearance or boobs. All women deserve a welcoming, judgment-free lingerie shopping experience. Men deserve it too: I was appalled to hear that one of the store’s employees mocked “moobies” during one episode. I’m sorry, I have no patience with that shit. I have been made to feel ugly, weird, inappropriate, wrong, and abnormal because of my breasts, and I’m a woman. I cannot imagine how the emotional pain and shame are compounded if you’re a man who’s seeking the same support I do. Making fun of “man-boobs” shows an extreme lack of empathy, and it’s totally unacceptable.
This sign is NOT from Double Divas, but nevertheless, congratulations, other dumb-fuck lingerie boutique. You just lost every customer with a brain. (Thanks to Busts4Justice for naming and shaming)
Enough of that nonsense. I thought it would be nice to address what a really, really good, even exemplary fitting experience would be like. I haven’t had a lot of them in New York City, unfortunately. My very first fitting was at Nordstrom shortly after graduating from college, and it was wonderful, positive, reassuring, and helpful. My experiences in NYC have been . . . stressful. The stores are small, the sales staff are either overly aggressive or absent, there’s a sense of no-nonsense authoritarianism, and, my biggest pet peeve, you can’t SEE the damn lingerie. It’s all tucked away in boxes and backstock, and unless you know what to ask for, you might never see anything beyond 2 or 3 styles. As frustrating as this is to me, a lingerie obsessive, I can’t imagine how bewildering it must be to someone who’s just starting out on her lingerie/boob-loving journey. So this is what I, Sweets, would like to find in a bra-shopping experience, and I’d love to hear what others think!
A dressing room at Faire Frou Frou in Studio City, California. Photograph by MakingMagique.com
- You, the customer, are welcomed to the store in a friendly way. (Note to retailers: Someone who jumps on me when I walk in and chirps “DID YOU KNOW YOU’RE PROBABLY WEARING THE WRONG SIZE?!?!” tells me she isn’t invested in me as a customer. She hasn’t even asked me why I’m there yet. She is invested in spouting the party line, the advertising rhetoric, the gimmick that will make a sale. She doesn’t want me to learn to love and fit my boobs; she wants to sell me a bra and make me keep coming back to her. It’s the single biggest turn-off to me, right up there with D+ bras that only come in beige and black and small-cup bras that only come with three inches of padding.)
- The store is clean, attractive, well laid-out, bright, accessible to those with disabilities, and welcoming to nursing mothers. Dressing rooms and restrooms are clean, well-lit, and private. There is room for your shopping bags, strollers, and small children.
- There are lots of racks or displays showing available styles and products. You can browse and choose and compare products on your own if you want to.
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Derriere de Soie in Charlottesville, VA
- A store associate will politely ask you if you have any questions. If you say you’d like to be fitted, she will offer to make you an appointment or will offer to assist you.
- You will be guided to a private, flatteringly-lit, comfortable dressing room, with a seat and hooks for your bags and belongings.
- The fitter will ask you to remove your shirt if you’re comfortable doing so, and she will ask you some questions about the bra you’re already wearing:
- What size is it?
- How old is it?
- What do you like about it?
- What do you dislike about it?
- How does this bra make you feel?
- If you’ve never been fitted, the fitter will, in a non-authoritarian, non-judgmental manner, explain how a new bra should fit:
- band firm without digging, lying horizontally across back, fastened on loosest hook
- straps adjusted to support and smooth the cup, but not so tight that they dig into shoulders
- cup completely encasing breast tissue, including under, around, and over the breast. Center front lies flush against sternum. No double-boob or wrinkling in the cup.
- She will show you if there are any signs that your current bra may not be the best fit or may be worn out, and offer to bring you some new bras to try on. She will say “I think we may be able to find a better fit” instead of “you’re doing it wrong.”
- Before she leaves to get some bras, she will ask you if there is a particular style or look or feel that interests you.
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Bravissimo, London.
- When you find a new bra that you think fits, she will ask if she can see it.
- She will ask you what you think of it and how you feel.
- She will point out to you why the fit is improved, and tell you how to determine a good fit for yourself in the future.
- She will listen to you if you still feel unsatisfied or uncomfortable, and she will either reassure you (wearing the right band size can feel strange if you’ve gotten used to the wrong one, and having cup size shock if you’ve been wearing the wrong cup size is totally understandable) or offer other products.
- She will NEVER tell you that your size is set in stone, that your boobs are wrong, or that you should make the best of what you’ve got, and she will never force you to buy a bra or set or shape you don’t love. She will certainly never dream of saying “well, you need a G, but we don’t carry G cups, why don’t you try an F?” This is disingenuous and misleading, and she’d be trying to force you to buy something that isn’t right for you. What kind of way is that to keep a customer? She will also never fit you into a band that’s too loose for you unless the store offers free alterations to ensure a good fit and long bra life.
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A Sophisticated Pair. Burlington, North Carolina.
- She will offer to bring you as many different sizes/styles as are available to you, and she will respect any budget concerns you may have.
- She will be understanding if you decide not to purchase anything that day.
- She will be honest if a particular bra isn’t made in your size, and she will suggest alternatives, even if that means suggesting another retailer.
- She will be aware of any shyness, embarrassment, or shame that women may feel about their breasts or breast-related health issues, and she will be sensitive and understanding.
- She will be upfront about the store’s return/alteration/shipping policy.
- She will thank you for visiting the store and cheerfully wish you a pleasant day.
If you do not find this experience in a store, and/or you leave feeling bummed out, ashamed, or disappointed, do not go back to that store. Until the perfect experience is available, we have the internet.
Also, champagne and sweets in the dressing rooms would go over SWELL, although I understand we live in a sadly imperfect world. 😉
36 Comments on What a Good Fitting Experience Should Be Like
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sophisticatedpair
January 22, 2013 at 12:46 pm (10 years ago)You make some excellent points, Sweets! Fittings should be as pain-free as possible, and it’s important that the fitter takes the time to listen. In fact, I feel like this is the biggest component of any fitting because, after all, we’re trying to help the customer find what they want/need in a bra. Our store is still new and small, so when we get customers who clearly want something we can’t provide, I take their email address and send them recommendations from other retailers/manufacturers.
On the flip side though, ladies, if you had a great experience at a store (even if you didn’t buy anything that day), please leave a review. Businesses grow and thrive on reviews and recommendations to friends, and it will help keep that store open.
P.S. Thanks for including a picture of our store! 🙂
Sweets
January 22, 2013 at 12:50 pm (10 years ago)That’s such a good point! Reviews: it’s a good retailer that encourages them and listens to them 🙂
thelingerielesbian
January 22, 2013 at 1:47 pm (10 years ago)SO much important stuff in here! I have also found subpar experiences in NYC stores, especially when shopping with/for my gf who is DD+. I also think there are some truly dreadful window displays happening in this city from the lingerie stores, but I could write a whole different post about that.
Sweets
January 22, 2013 at 1:51 pm (10 years ago)Ha! Oh man, please do. 🙂
Windie
January 22, 2013 at 1:56 pm (10 years ago)We need boutiques designed be Sweets worldwide.
Sweets
January 22, 2013 at 2:05 pm (10 years ago)They would be out of business before they opened, because I’d blow the budget on stock for myself and on froofy decor 🙂
windiegardie
January 22, 2013 at 2:22 pm (10 years ago)Phooey.
(although froofy decor sounds GREAT).
Fussy Busty
January 22, 2013 at 4:26 pm (10 years ago)All really great points!
I’m still not sure I’ve ever had an experience like this. Intimacy came close, but I hate the way they stock their product in the store. On the visible racks is always the most expensive pieces of lingerie, only up to a C cup, and THEN the larger cup and larger band bras are kept in drawers which are usually cram packed.. AND they don’t let you go through the drawers. The last time I was there, the fitter was going thru a drawer picking out bras for me (the drawer was only one size of bras) and I said “Ooh! That one is pretty! I want to try that!” and she said “That doesn’t work for large breasts!”….. Okay, so why was it made in the first place, and why did that bra exist? And, I still want to try it!
Also, the fitter at Intimacy? She knew nothing of the swoop and scoop. :-/
Sweets
January 22, 2013 at 4:28 pm (10 years ago)Yep, I’ve been to two Intimacy locations (both in NYC), and left unimpressed. They have a pretty good understanding of fit basics, but the execution feels cold and bossy (the survey you have to fill out every time you go in before you can see a fitter . . . blah), the full-bust options are limited (and pricey, good heavens) and my personal fittings were hit-or-miss. The swoop and scoop is the best, and any fitter who doesn’t know it isn’t worth her salt!
Cora, The Lingerie Addict
January 23, 2013 at 3:38 am (10 years ago)It’s no better at Intimacy Atlanta.
Sweets
January 23, 2013 at 7:38 am (10 years ago)That’s so disappointing to hear.
faustineli
January 22, 2013 at 5:03 pm (10 years ago)Yes please!
I got fitted at Linda’s in NYC and they wouldn’t let me look through the stock, which made me pretty upset. The fitters can’t convince me they know better than I what would suit me if they are giving me quad boob and ask me why I’m scooping all my breast tissue into the bra…
I had the same problem at Intimacy in Boston. Please show off the lingerie! The crammed drawers just feel depressing…
Sweets
January 22, 2013 at 5:18 pm (10 years ago)See, that’s just so disappointing to hear. There have been so many positive developments and new brands in the last decade; why haven’t these well-known lingerie shops caught up? I agree re: Linda’s. I went to the new midtown location the other day, and while I recognized most of the brands, they’d have a maximum of maybe four sizes on display. You’d have to ask a fitter/sales associate to find things for you, and very likely you’d have no idea whether or not something came in your size until you heard “No.” So demoralizing for a customer!
Cora, The Lingerie Addict
January 23, 2013 at 3:37 am (10 years ago)Everyone who has ever visited (or wanted to visit) a lingerie boutique should read this. And everyone who has ever opened (or thought about opening) a lingerie boutique should read this. It’s not rocket science. It’s basic customer service. It’s making the people who are entering your store for their intimate apparel needs feel welcome valued. I am so tired of visiting lingerie boutiques and being treated like 1) a quick sale or 2) like I was in the way of something like they’d rather be doing. And brick and mortar boutiques wonder why they’re hemorrhaging customers. Just selling bras isn’t enough anymore; you actually have to give people a reason to visit YOU.
I better stop here before I really get started. Let me just say this is a great post, and I hope you can add it to a “Best of” or “Favorites” list on your site so everyone visiting can read it.
Sweets
January 23, 2013 at 7:37 am (10 years ago)I walked by a well-known UWS lingerie boutique last night, and after reading some notices posted by the owners in the front window, I didn’t even go in. There was one that said “if you are caught scanning, you will be thrown out. Shop local!”, along with newspaper articles extolling the store’s no-nonsense on-sight fitting tactics. I’m sorry, why would I even walk in the door, if you’re just going to suspect me of being a thief or, horrors, of comparison shopping, or if you’re going to treat me like a recalcitrant child that needs bossing around? I have no desire to “shop local” if that’s how you’re going to treat your customers. Thanks for your kind words!
sophisticatedpair
January 30, 2013 at 3:49 pm (10 years ago)I started responding a bit to the scanner sign, but then I decided I should probably take my “TL,DR” post and turn it into a blog! 😀
kyotoredbird
January 23, 2013 at 9:37 am (10 years ago)There’s no lingerie boutiques in my area; just Victoria’s Secret. The last time I got fitted by them was a terrible experience. I wear a very small size, and the fitter exclaimed (loudly) that I was even smaller than I thought, they don’t carry my size AT ALL and neither does anyone else (which is false), and then said “but at least you’re skinny!” and giggled like a maniac before trying to sell me a super-padded bra in a size too big for me. I wrote VS to complain about my treatment and they comped me with a 30% off coupon that could only be used in stores. I tried a different VS location only to have the salesgirl roll her eyes at me, told me they don’t carry that size, and direct me to a section on bras that were again too big for me. I ended up using my coupon on panties and left the store entirely defeated. So my overall VS experience: One salesgirl laughed at me and the other didn’t even want to be bothered with me. That’s very poor customer service. And now I’m afraid to be re-fitted anywhere else because I’m afraid of being laughed at or dismissed again. I dream about having a wonderful lingerie shopping experience but I don’t even know where I’d get one.
Sweets
January 23, 2013 at 9:56 am (10 years ago)Oh dear, I’m so, so sorry you had such a bad experience. The “good” news is you’re not alone– more and more women are speaking up for themselves and reporting bad experiences like this, and you absolutely did the right thing to contact the higher-ups. You did your part, VS did not do theirs, so you can feel free to move on. Finding a good local boutique can be frustrating, but it’s definitely worth it. Ask around, check Yelp and other review services, check magazines and sites like Time Out, read as many reviews as you can, and if you find a bra and brand you like, check their website– you’ll likely find a list of retailers and local vendors. Any store that offers smaller-bust customers only padded bras is a store that shouldn’t be in business. There are so, so, so many stunningly beautiful bras that fit and flatter the natural shape of a petite bust, and a good boutique should be able to recommend them to you. (My faves: Huit, Mimi Holliday, and independent designers like Arabel Lingerie, Kiss Me Deadly, and Dottie’s Delights). Happy hunting!
kyotoredbird
January 23, 2013 at 10:57 am (10 years ago)I am done spending my money with VS. Why shop with a company who doesn’t care about my needs as a customer? I did buy some LulaLu bras recently and they were stunning and excellent quality, but the ones I bought aren’t really every-day bras. I really need some options for some good fitting all-occasion bras. Thank you for the recommendations! It’s nice to know that there are vendors out there who cater to the small-busted demographic!
Busts of Gotham
January 25, 2013 at 2:13 am (10 years ago)Re: alternate title… Hahaha, love it!!! Hey, we’re in NY too. I wonder if we can convince Bravissimo to open here. It would make so much sense for them to open in NY, LA, Toronto, just a sprinkling of large cities to expand their business. LET’S MAKE IT HAPPEN! 😀
Sweets
January 25, 2013 at 8:37 am (10 years ago)Oh, that would just be my dream come true!
Fussy Busty
February 7, 2013 at 5:14 pm (10 years ago)I kind of wanted to share with you some of the comments I have gotten from women who have come to my blog thinking that I am somehow THE double divas *exasperated sigh*
There are many women that love the show and *do* feel better about their bodies
— but they don’t know how a bra is supposed to fit, so they feel lost.
I mean, it’s all over my comments section and various locations on my blog (and I’ve gotten probably 100 emails asking for fit help, and can I please let them visit me in Atlanta???). I’m so amazed that so many women have found that they love this show because I so deeply abhorred it for the language and how they talk about women’s bodies.
Sweets
February 7, 2013 at 5:25 pm (10 years ago)I think you said it best that just because someone is speaking for you doesn’t mean you have to accept it if they’re speaking badly for you. I think maybe that first realization of “oh my god, there ARE bras over a D-cup/a certain band-size/what have you!” is so strong and so powerful, and the relief is so great, that we want to embrace wholeheartedly the bearer of the good news. It’s only later that we realize that the messenger is actually kind of a dick.
As I’ve been writing/reading over the last year, I’ve come to realize a) how truly abhorrent lots of the language surrounding women’s bodies is and b) how long it took me to notice the abhorrence. I mean, some of the subtler, more insidious stuff I’m JUST NOW getting a grip on. As much as I want women to clamor for awesome, judgment-free lingerie, we first have to convince them that they’re worth it, and pay more than lip-service to that effort. You are such an important voice, just make sure you keep doing what you’re doing, even if it means having to repeat yourself.
I fail utterly to understand how people have decided you’re involved in the show, but I guess that’s the internet for you? 😉
Fussy Busty
February 7, 2013 at 5:42 pm (10 years ago)I just don’t even know. But I’m responding to everyone’s requests with a “I’m not them, but here’s how I can help you” kind of disclaimer….because these women *do* need help, and well….something led them to me. Although, I mention Double Divas enough on my blog that I’m not surprised that 400-500 searches for Double Divas leads to my blog *each. day*. I do feel, however, that if people read what I post, then they would know exactly who I am….but c’est la vie. It’s just more chances for me to share the boob love!
I know exactly what you mean…the first time I tried on a Curvy Kate bra in a 40J after years of wearing a 44H (US) my eyes were opened and I was like… WTF? Whoa! This feeling exists?! But that doesn’t mean that I was accepting scraps when I really wanted prime rib, ya know? I think I had made that comment in the group the “we have to convince ourselves we love this just because it’s the first bone we’ve been thrown” and I feel like that really does sum up what is going on here. Whether these women realize it or not.
And honestly, don’t underestimate your voice, lady. You’re the one I look up to because I so often feel like you. just. get. it. 🙂
Diane Mae
February 13, 2013 at 6:15 pm (10 years ago)I’ve been fitted at both Linda’s and Intimacy, and I was very happy I went. Very true that you do not see their inventory, only what the fitter brings in, but I think that is to perhaps get you open to trying something different that might really look great you. Since the published statistics (which never improve…Hmmm?) state that 80% or women are wearing the wrong sized bra, it follows that many are also wearing the wrong type of bra for their particular shape. I think many of us would be closed minded about trying a bra style that we once thought was hideous on us. But…now with the correct size, it may be wonderful. Besides, we can see all the styles we want to see on-line and in stores. We we can always ask for a particular bra if we really want it. Best to phone ahead to ensure they carry it. I really try to put myself in the hands of a trained fitter and see what she can do.
Sweets
February 13, 2013 at 8:15 pm (10 years ago)Diane, thank you so much for commenting, because you bring up such an important point: fitters, really good fitters, should above all be educators. I have had a fitter advise me to try a sister size to achieve a better fit in a particular brand and style, and I was very grateful to her. I wouldn’t have thought to do it on my own, and by putting myself in her hands, exactly as you say, I learned something, and I wound up with a bra I loved that felt amazing. However, at the same boutique and on a different occasion, I asked to try a sister size because I knew, or at least I thought I knew, that the band on the size I’d been given felt loose and stretchy. The fitter refused. I HAD done my homework, as a matter of fact, and I’d checked the store’s inventory before coming in (which you’re right to bring up: it never hurts for customers to be proactive and do some research), so I knew which sizes were in stock. She wound up bringing me a smaller band size, but with the same (and therefore smaller) cup size, and then crowed triumphantly when it was too small. I trusted her judgment, bought the first bra at full price, and I wore it maybe five times comfortably before it went in the donation pile. That’s no way to win a customer.
I have been to the two boutiques you mention, as well as many, many others around the city and surrounding boroughs, and I think my biggest concern is consistency. Any one good, educational or uplifting experience has been negated in some way on a different occasion, whether it’s a fitter’s attitude or language towards my body, impatience with my questions and requests, dismissiveness of my level of knowledge, general chaos in the store, or lack of options in my size for me to try on. Furthermore, no matter how wonderful the store or the fitter, if they’re not teaching women to fit themselves without the aid of a fitter, they’re not doing their jobs. There are many women who live hundreds of miles away from boutiques that stock their sizes and styles, and who might save up for the opportunity to shop in a boutique every few years or so, if that. They simply do not have the option to place themselves solely in their fitter’s hands, and their fitter needs to teach them to fit themselves and recognize their shape and size.
Of course I am very, very glad that you’ve had good experiences at these two stores! Every woman who feels awesome about her bras and her boobs is okay, nay, excellent, by me. However, I’ve talked to too many women, of all different sizes and all different levels of bra-education levels, to think that any one boutique is the answer. They all do some things well; I just think they ought to do better.
Cortney
March 6, 2013 at 11:37 am (10 years ago)Wow. I work at a Canadian boutique, and this is what should be circulated throughout the company! Hope you don’t mind if I forward this to my boss/fellow fitters! I like to think I do most of these, it never hurts to get tips.
Sweets
March 6, 2013 at 11:44 am (10 years ago)Wow, thank you Cortney, I don’t mind at all (and I’m rather flattered)! I’ll admit that maybe not ALL of these are requirements ALL the time, but it’s nice to imagine that this is how we’d be treated going into a shop 🙂
Frustrated Bra Shopper
March 31, 2014 at 10:50 pm (9 years ago)I’ve actually just had 2 decent experiences at 2 different Victoria Secrets within the past few days. One in Miami, the other in Broward. The fitting was quite accurate, they worked with me to find a fit and style that I was comfortable in, and they didn’t try to sell me a more expensive bra. When they could not fit me in the style I liked because it would take me past the DDD that they carry (seriously?), they referred me to Intimacy. I headed straight to Intimacy which is located in the same mall and that’s where I had the bad experience.
The fitting agent was cold and bossy, as described by someone in a previous post, and when I mentioned that the wire wasn’t sitting right under my breast, that it felt like it was sliding down creating an uncomfortable gap between the wire and the very bottom of my breast, she responded by making a comment about my wanting the vavavoom effect. ??? Being a conservative woman (she couldn’t have known that), and given that I had absolutely NO cleavage exposed when I walked into the store (she should have noticed), AND based on what I explained I was looking for (was she listening?), that was the last comment I expected to hear. Plus she said all their bras are rough and lacy, which I detest (I’m still itchy from the two bras I tried). Not to mention their prices were double that of VS. @@
I’m not Victoria Secret’s biggest fan in general, but I must say that based on your description of the perfect experience, these particular VS locations came pretty close. Plus I have yet to find a bra that is as soft as theirs are.
Needless to say, my search for the perfect bra [for me] continues. 🙁
P.S. I’m glad I stumbled across this site. I’ve already recommended it to 2 people. 🙂
Cathy
February 22, 2015 at 6:40 pm (8 years ago)Good fitting is right.Now days women are growing bigger breasts than they did in my days including myself.I know. I was an early developer at age 9 and have gone from a 38 to a 42 dd.I was already a 42 when some of my School mates my age and older were still flat chested.Thanks for this site.Cathy
Aafke-Art
April 8, 2017 at 4:33 pm (6 years ago)I remember going into lingerie stores and the only bras in my size were somewhere at the back, giant super ugly, ”flesh” coloured monstrosities, and when I pointed to a cute bra with lace and asked if they had that one in y size they sniggered… 🙁
I have brought my bras since many years from ”Salon de lingerie” in Amsterdam, Nice dressing rooms, friendly professional fitters. Most of their bra’s certainlly the lager cup sizes, are in glass fronted drawers They take out the drawer in your size (or in another size if a particular brand fits better in another size, an you choose which bras you want to try. And they help you and check the fit and bring other bra’s they think you should try and will order if they don’t have iit.
My favorite bra until now is the Prima Donna Deauville. But now I live in America I am looking for other options as well and your blog helped me so much!